Growthitect

Alexander: it's an Estrela Galicia.

Tyler: Welcome to the last episode
of season one of the Growthitect

podcast, Alex and I grabbed
some of our favorite drinks.

And this time I get to interview Alex.

I asked him questions like, what
advice do you have for architects

that want to start their own firm?

Alexander: what you want to do straight
off the bat is start planning ahead

and start putting things in place.

Tyler: What's something that lots
of architects are overlooking

Alexander: I think checking in
just to make sure it's going in the

right direction that you wanted.

Tyler: and what's his most controversial
point of view on architecture.

Alexander: I feel a bit more further
from it, like I can't relate as

much to the intellectualizing

Tyler: This conversation is a less
edited and more free flowing celebration

of Season 1, so I hope you enjoy.

I got my favorite, which you might
actually hate being from, uh, Ireland, but

Alexander: Oh, Jack Daniels.

No, I'm not, I don't, I don't hate it.

I'm not that much.

It's more between Ireland and Scotland.

The issue is,

Tyler: okay.

I mean, it's kind of lame because,
you know, I've, I do really

like whiskey, but this was the
first whiskey that I ever had.

And as a result, it's like
ruined all of the others for me.

You know what I mean?

It's just like, I know that it's
sweet and whatever, and this

Alexander: yeah, yeah, no, a hundred

Tyler: but it is what it is.

And, uh,

Alexander: I, to be honest, I started off
on a lot of the basic stuff in Ireland.

So you're like, you've got your
powers, your Jensen and all that.

And, um, you know, anything
is kind of upward from that.

So it's, it's kind of like a low baseline.

Tyler: yeah, it takes so long to, I think,
in my opinion, at least for me, it's

because I still feel like I don't have a
good hold on it, but like to, Let's say

be a, be an educated drinker of alcohol.

it takes so much energy and it's not
like, it's not a skill or an interest that

I have, cause I don't drink that much.

and so I have so little knowledge about,
about liquor, about alcohol in general.

It's really bad.

so I'm literally just like,

Alexander: We can do a separate podcast on

Tyler: yeah, we can do
a separate podcast on

Alexander: You can ask me about that.

You know, I've got a,

Tyler: There it is.

Alexander: I've just come back from a,
uh, a pretty big weekend in Dublin with

a couple of friends for a bachelor party.

So you can imagine there
was a lot going on.

Tyler: Yes.

You learned, you learned,
you learned a lot about it.

Yeah, the, the amount of times that
I've tried to learn about, beer or

wine or liquor in general, it's just,
I, I feel like I never, uh, absorb

it, but, uh, cheers, cheers to you.

Cheers to season one.

Alexander: Cheers.

I'm uh, I'm on a Spanish beer.

it's a, it's an Estrela Galicia.

So, I was actually last night, I was with
a couple of, colleagues and, we ended up

going to a Spanish bar and we were just
catching up about how our course that

we're on is going and like, you know,
having a couple of drinks, a bit of food.

Uh, yeah, it was really good.

It was good to kind of shoot the,
shoot the shit, you know, and, and

see how everyone's doing and people
are, people getting, um, Getting their

accountants, you know, lined up and, and

it's interesting to see like how they're
finding that market and navigating that.

And then, um, you're all navigating
different things, you know,

New York's wild in the summer.

I was, you know, back in the city
and I, and I went and had a couple

of meetings and stuff and, and, and
yeah, it's just like, it's crazy, man.

It's just like, it's a
good, it's a good buzz.

It was a good vibe going
around the city yesterday.

Tyler: that's good.

All around the whole city.

The whole city is just vibing.

That's always a good place to be in.

Well, I thought for our final recording,
you know, typically these are, um,

whatever recorded consultations, but
we're celebrating, you know, the end of

season one, as well as you over the last
10 weeks, launching your firm, launching

studio, Bucky, you know, landing your
first clients, doing a ton of traveling,

just a lot of exciting things happening.

So I thought it'd be more
fun if I ask you questions

Alexander: Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm up for it.

Let's, let's, let's do it.

Tyler: Sweet.

All right.

I feel like usually our conversations,
well, I guess it's the final,

it's the final episode now.

So we can say that typically what we do
is we record multiple episodes at once.

Right.

So we'll sit down and we'll usually do
like a couple and I'll just happen to

break it up because there's a natural
breaking point in that conversation

where we move to something else.

I think that's how those
episodes typically end up being

like 20 or 30 minutes, but.

Who knows how long this one's going to be.

I've got the next four
hours blocked off, Alex.

Um, no kidding.

Alexander: I'm here.

I've got a six pack.

Tyler: boom.

All right, cool.

Well, so what advice do you
have for architects that

want to start their own firm?

Alexander: Well, I think you, what
you want to do straight off the

bat is start planning ahead and
start putting things in place.

So whatever it's like, you know,
obviously we've gone through a lot

together on the podcast and just like.

I think in one of our initial episodes,
we just spoke about starting to kind

of get some, some ideas of what you
want to do and what you want to kind

of systems in place, even possibly,
you know, and I think it's good to get

some experience, you know, but just
so I wouldn't go straight into it.

I think I'd go and try out
a few studios or offices.

And I think then I would just jump for it.

I think, you know, looking back on it
for me, I think I could have gone sooner.

I think we can all say
that on many things.

We could all say, I probably
should have started that earlier.

And I could say that.

for people as well, I think I
would say, it's better just to get

going and start moving the gears.

It actually is, it's quite, it,
there's light at the end of the tunnel.

And on the other side, it's quite
interesting, which I'm finding, you know,

it's, I wouldn't look back now, you know,
I wouldn't, you know, it's, it's, it's,

though it's only been like two months.

Or yeah, I guess that's all it's been.

It's like, it's just, it's
opened up a world of possibility,

which I find, you know,
then I think that's amazing.

So yeah, look, I think overall I would
say start thinking really about what

you want to be with, you know, do with
the studio or your office and start

thinking about planning ahead for that.

So financially.

your network and starting to like
put feelers out about what you're

doing, starting to test the market
a little bit about it, all that

stuff, starting to build your brand.

I had, I had done a lot of that
in my head and obviously started

to implement some of that.

And I think others.

Can start to think if they, if
they want to do it and they think

they can, you know, I think I just
go for it, put it aside X amount

and go and just give it a shot.

I mean, at the end of the day, my,
my theory always was you can always

go back and get a job, you know,

Tyler: yes, if you're

Alexander: um, I,

we discussed that together,

you know, I think early when
we had a conversation, I

think that was, we both said that
was like, look, at the end of the

day, you can, things don't work out.

You just get a job or I think, um,
you can try something else, you know?

Tyler: I mean, there's so many things.

It's, you know, I think we tend
to be so risk averse, right?

So we get so worried about those things.

Alexander: Um, so,

Tyler: know, we, we
don't want to take this.

However, I do.

I think that your path is more important.

I would rather be in your position
where you said I could have gone sooner,

Alexander: um,

Tyler: Then to be in the other position,
which is I should have waited a

little bit longer when I started mine.

I think that I went too soon,
but I went too soon just

because like, I was frustrated.

I was tired of looking for a
firm that I thought I would

want to spend time working at.

And I just, I just couldn't find it.

And so I was like, screw it.

I'll just, I'll just start my own thing.

but I think I ultimately ended up
probably starting that too soon.

Alexander: how much years did you
have in practice at that point?

Roughly.

Tyler: I don't know if you take like
all of the, I had been in architecture

for like, you know, Six years at
that point or something through, and

that's through school and internships
and different things like that, you

know, so something along those lines.

But in terms of, full time
work within firms, it was

probably like a couple of years.

Like it wasn't, it wasn't
a ton like when you add

Alexander: Yeah.

And it's, it's hard to quantify, you

know, cause like I think, I, I, I played
around with scales of offices and stuff,

and You know, it's all a bit different.

And I think we said before, I think it's,
it's good to see a bit of all of it.

If you can, you know, if you could
see the plus 50 person practice,

you can see the minus, you know,
less than 10 practice, you know, I

think it's good to experience that.

Cause you get more responsibility
as you go down the chain.

And, I think in the bigger
offices, it's interesting to see

how that infrastructure works.

You know, there's a lot of interesting,
efficient, productive things going

on in the big ones where you can
really learn how to be a lean machine.

Tyler: Well, I'm glad that was
your experience with the big one.

what I found in working with a larger
like international firm was that, wow,

there's so many talented people around me.

Like I was just completely
blown away by the talent.

I felt like I was at the bottom,
in terms of the talent that

was, that was at the firm.

So that was.

You know, that was incredible.

And I like that because I like
feeling like everyone around me is,

is a little bit better and I have
something to learn from everyone.

So,

you know, I don't, I don't want to
come in and be the best at something.

That's, you know, that's
not very motivating.

So I really enjoyed that, but I felt
like I looked around and just saw

inefficiencies like all around me.

almost from like a project management,
from a time management standpoint, it's

like, is it really like, do I, do we,
do we really need 20 iterations of this?

Like, is that the best use of, of time?

And, you know, even while I was there,
I'd probably spent, I don't know,

six to eight months on this, like one
space, um, it wasn't the only thing

I was doing, but it was like it was
a long time and it was, it was like

a lobby, of a giant like skyscraper.

Uh, you know, it was big, it was a big.

Like part of, of the project,
but I don't know if we ever got

like buying from the client.

I really don't know.

Alexander: I've

been through that.

Tyler: you know, it's like, uh, it's
just one of those wild things where it's

like, who Like, is the client spending
money for us to continue working on this?

Is, or are we like swallowing the cost of,
like, I just don't, it's hard to know what

the economies of scale are there, like

Alexander: Yeah.

Well, I mean, you'd like to think that was
a billable hour situation going on there.

Tyler: You'd have to think, yeah, you'd

Alexander: You have,

to think, cause I think,
and I've seen both the

sides of the coin.

Tyler: know, I don't know.

I don't have confidence in that.

Alexander: Yeah.

Yeah.

I think, you know, I I've seen both
sides of like, I've seen the billable

hours done meticulously and to a point
where I was really, you know, I didn't

want to fill out the sheets, you
know, let's be honest and you know,

it's really annoying having to do it.

But I think once you learn and you
mature about it, you're like, Oh God,

this is actually really necessary.

Cause then you're going to build a client
and they're going to know exactly how

many hours you did, what items you worked
on, there's a bit more transparency, you

Tyler: Yeah.

But you never figured that out until
you get into the management position,

Alexander: No, no, no, you don't.

You don't, you don't.

You should be sat down and

Tyler: I was going to say that you
should be sat down and told in your

first architecture job, or really
when you get it to any firm, listen,

this is how the firm makes money.

If we don't make money, we can't pay you.

That's the importance of you

Alexander: or, and we
can't bring in better

Tyler: we can't, we

can't bring in better projects.

We don't know how much time
people are spending on things.

So we might lose money on projects,
which means we have to do layoffs.

It's like this all works together.

It's all, it's all in an engine
and it's all a system and it takes

everyone to participate and take it
seriously in order to do it well.

And I think if you don't educate, if
you don't educate your employees on

that, like you're kind of screwed.

Alexander: no, you are.

And it, you, it took me until
actually going through it myself to

realize why you realize it yourself.

Tyler: Well, I think this
brings me to the next question.

I was thinking, I think this is a harder
one, but I want you to put yourself in

the shoes of someone that's been running
their firm for a longer period of time.

because I know I have, definitely like
most of the people that follow growth

attack and these different things, like
they're firm owners and they've been

running firms for a pretty long time.

Relatively long time.

And sometimes that's their own firm.

And sometimes, they're a partner in a
firm and they've got, you know, 10 to

50 people working for them or something,
but just imagine yourself working,

and owning a firm for let's say 10
years, 20 years down the line, what's

something that you think those people
might be overlooking at this point.

And I want to ask you this
question because you're so fresh,

like you literally just started.

Right.

You just started the firm and all of
these things are so fresh and you're

having to tackle all of these like
business problems immediately right now.

So what's something that you think
they might be overlooking now?

You know, 10, 20 years later,
after starting their own firm,

Alexander: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's,
it's a tricky one, but I think, you

know, you'll, you'd probably be at that
point be looking to scale up and up

again, you know, so you're going to hit
different levels each time, probably

over the years, every five years, you're
probably going to jump into making more

money, adding more employees, et cetera.

So I don't know, I'm imagining it's
probably a decent, you know, let's say

it's 10, 12 people and you're, and you're
thinking more in terms of issues that

might, you might be addressing at that

Tyler: it's like, you know, what are the
things that they're probably overlooking

because they're in a flow now, right?

They're in a flow I think

that, 10 to 20 years in, you're
in that dangerous place that it's

like, this is the way it's been done,

Alexander: I think one thing that would
be really important, would be to kind of

like sit down and reflect on everything
and actually really take stock properly

on like why it is you're running, you
know, I'm sure you can get lost a little

bit in the process and a little bit.

It grows in a way.

I think checking in just to
make sure it's going in the

right direction that you wanted.

You're getting everything
you wanted out of it.

Like I've seen this this situation
play out and I don't know if people

are happy with where it's ended up.

So I feel like, you know?

whether that's sitting down and like,
you know, it's a quarterly thing, it

should be more like, don't get me wrong.

You should be checking in on what,
what your, you know, your goals,

mission, vision, and all that stuff is.

And I feel like, guess I've seen it
a little bit that, Projects come,

clients come, staff start coming
in, and things get busy, and it gets

out of hand, and the next thing,
you're just riding the wave, you

know,

Tyler: You're just going
through the motions.

Alexander: yeah, yeah, yeah, and I can
kind of see a little bit of that when

you start to get busy, you know, and
things are taking off, and you're just

hitting deadlines, and deliverables,
and, you know, think it's just important

to check in on everything, make sure
you're happy with where it's going.

If not, have a think about maybe, do
you want to change certain elements?

Are the projects right?

Is the team right that you're with?

Is there, is there growth?

What's the growth been like over
the last year or two, you know?

Tyler: I think you're right.

I think that's spot on.

It's so important to, to not get stuck
in going through the motions and to

make sure that you are taking stock in
your progress and you should absolutely

be celebrating the progress that
you've made up to this point, right.

Um, for anyone that's been, that's,
that's been in it for a long time.

Right.

So, you know, take a moment to acknowledge
and celebrate yourself for what you

have accomplished, but also just think
about what you do want out of the

future, because I think you're right.

Like it's, it's, it's easy to get caught
up In the motions, it's easy to forget

about what exactly you want to do.

And it takes so much more
mental and emotional effort

to ask yourself these questions.

What do I really want?

Um, what am I really going for?

What's the, what's the long term
plan here, but just, forcing yourself

into, into those every once in a
while, and making yourself feel a

little bit uncomfortable, I think is
probably the right move and can, and

can save you longer down the road.

Right.

Because the more that you delay that,
the more that you push that back,

you probably just get more unhappy
along the way I would imagine.

Alexander: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think I think so.

And I'm keeping relationships
good, you know, within whoever

you're working with as wise.

And you work with people for a long
time, certain people, you know, they

can be directors or associates or
people that you surround yourself with.

And just, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ensuring that they're also
happy and enjoying the journey.

Not everyone's always going to be
fully content all the time, but at

least you can do is have support
and, yeah, be open to having honest

conversations about how everyone's
feeling and doing with the business.

I think that's important because at the
end of the day, the studio will only grow

with who I'll bring in and who will be
involved with us as I move forward and

like, they're going to be very important.

So hiring is, is definitely
a bit, a bigger question.

And I see a lot of further
issues with that down the line.

But anyway.

I think it's just more of,
yeah, as you said, the more

about checking in and taking

stock, I think it's the best thing there.

Tyler: Yeah, but I think it's also a good
point, like thinking about the people

around you and that you're surrounding
yourself with, like, I actually, I really

loved the studio that I landed in when
I was in the large international firm,

like these guys were amazing and they
were all so talented and I had so much

to learn from all of them and we would go
out and I remember we went out and like

played basketball, at a gym in Chicago.

When we were there and we would go.

And since, since you'd be, you know,
encouraged to stay late, we would

pretty much be there late because
if you stayed late enough, you

know, dinner was paid for, right.

Uh, which is, you know, it's a terrible
incentive program, but, you know, you

stay late enough, um, dinner's paid for.

And so that happened, you
know, most nights, honestly,

Alexander: But you, know, you.

know, You pay 20

Tyler: your time with these people.

You have dinner together,
you, you meet them.

And it's just, you know, I was
thankful to have such a great

group of people around me,

Alexander: there's still people that you
kind of, still have some connection with.

Tyler: I haven't actually stayed, in
touch with them that much since I, since

Alexander: Yeah.

It depends, I guess, on which

Tyler: I'm literally terrible at that.

So you, you found, you
found my, I'm terrible.

Alexander: Yeah.

Fair.

Yeah.

But no, look, it's like, it's
a, we're all, we're all got

different things going on, you

Tyler: Yeah.

when I left that firm, I also moved out
of Chicago, like shortly thereafter.

Alexander: Yeah.

Tyler: it was, kind of
like a one, two punch.

And then I was onto the next thing
and we moved back to Michigan.

So, you know, life moves fast after

Alexander: Gotcha.

It does.

It does.

Tyler: but, uh, yeah, so.

Long term goals for Studio Bucky.

We've talked about it a little bit,
but like, I'm just curious if you've,

I mean, now actually this is, this is
kind of funny now because what, because

of what you just said, but, what do
you want to do with Studio Bucky?

Alexander: I mean, again, I was actually
having this conversation last night

with a couple of people when I was like,
already, I was like, having thinking

about, okay, where's this going?

You know, it's only early doors and
stuff, but I was thinking about, you know,

Right now I'm doing a lot of interior
renovations, ultimately, and it seems

like there's a lot, there's a lot of
scope for, for many different kind of more

artistic, you know, art installations or,
or, or different kinds of things, but I

think I'm gonna, gonna kind of work my
way through the gears in terms of the

projects first with interiors, and then
I'm gonna like branch into the, uh, back

into my foot into the architecture a bit.

I think that I've, you know, I'm
obviously trained in that and I've

but I found myself predominantly
in interior renovations, um,

and particularly in retail.

So, you know, I am checking in a little
bit at the start here, cause that's,

what's coming in for me right now.

And I'm happy to go through
the emotions with it.

And I enjoy, the public
aspect to it and I enjoy it.

collaborating with brands ultimately,
because they've got like a Well, at

the same time, you know, I think I
would like to see scales go up a bit.

I think I'd like to experience, you know,
the building envelope in its totality,

you know, like not just the inner skin.

And so I think I'd like to like
refine the machine and work my

way up through the building.

I'm not saying

Tyler: Yeah.

Start in and go out.

Yeah.

Alexander: Yeah, but you know, I, I
would say, yeah, definitely houses, I'd

say definitely go to mid rise for sure.

I think, making sure buildings and
there's the relationship with the

landscape is always being developed.

And then I think the big thing for me will
be, I want to have two studios in terms

of like one in Europe and one in the U
S and that's always been a goal for me.

So you know, obviously I'm based
in New York and I see, that

being one of my main goals.

Homes for the studio.

And I think the other studio will go
to, yeah, it will be in Europe as well.

So I'll have the kind of duality of both.

And that's not just for both markets.

It's both because of like, um, it's
just, they both offer different things.

You know, I'm from Ireland.

I would like to start working in Paris,
London, you know, Dublin, Madrid, whatnot.

I think, so I've always
seen this as a global thing.

So how I navigate that is
probably going to be interesting.

I'd imagine.

Cause, um, you know, I'll probably need.

A team, a light team in New
York, I would say, and actually

potentially a bigger team over there.

Tyler: Hmm.

Yeah.

think it's easier to win work
over in Europe or is it like,

Alexander: I don't know.

I actually, you know, I think I need
to sit down and actually probably think

about the next two years and three years,
just how that plays out with this idea.

Even I think that because I was in Paris
for four years, I have connections there.

I think I could, if I, I, I just was
messaging someone in London based.

And I think I could, you know,
it would, again, I haven't,

I haven't opened the door.

I haven't really.

Sat down to say, if I go to London for a
week and actually network and go, and was

there a possibility that I'll end up, you
know, making a strong enough connection.

Tyler: yeah.

Yeah.

Alexander: and I don't know
how these things play out.

I, I guess you do good work and the good
work brings you, and don't, and also

you, you're good at business, obviously,
but, it's like a teleporter thing.

It takes you to the next place.

I, I, I don't know.

There's probably different
systems going on.

Like for example, if someone sees
like your project on there, they're

there or what you're about, they'll
eventually want to drag you in a

certain direction, potentially.

I don't know.

Anyway, look, I see it as an ever evolving
thing that will have two studios, probably

at the minimum could go further if
the right people I meet along the way.

I'm very open to this going in any
direction and, letting it evolve,

you know, as I go and like having
principles about it, but at the end

of the day, putting in the right
people together to make good work

and finding good clients, you know?

Tyler: Yeah.

Yeah.

I love that perspective.

You know, it's, I think it's important
for people to hear it's, you know,

you, you did start a business and
you have a direction that you're

moving and you're starting these
things, but you're not nailed down

to it and you're like, you know,
things might change different things.

This thing's going to evolve.

It's definitely not going
to be what it is right now.

You're not going to land right into
perfection, you know, into right.

What you want to do.

And.

And it takes some time.

It takes a lot of, time and
experimenting, and exploration

to really figure out what it is.

And I think that's a better position
to come into it with than to be

like, I know exactly what I want

only going to go directly towards that.

Because even if you think you know
exactly what you want, I think

immediately when you start your own thing
and you're immediately in control of

everything, like that probably changes,

Alexander: Yeah.

It's like our whole life journey,

you know, it's like, you know, I,
I didn't expect to be sitting in

New York, starting the business.

I never expected to be married to
someone from Spain when I, you know,

it's the, all these things just happen.

You meet people along
this path that you're on.

And, uh, I think, I think what's
always worked in my favor is I've

been open to just walking the path
and just taking it and seeing what

comes my way without making too
much of a judgment call either way.

And just be like, being open to how it
could play out, you know, rather than

having a very strict kind of, this is,
this is what, what is, I want to be here

in this place at that point in time.

And just, it just doesn't work like that.

We all know that, you know, I

Tyler: I think that's
the right perspective.

You know, I don't know if I've ever told
you this, but I snark architecture, which

is, you know, where, where you came from.

If people are listening,
don't, don't realize that.

was absolutely like one of my top
three favorite firms of all time.

Always has been.

I first learned about SNARcitecture in
undergrad from one of my professors.

Tom Moran, shout out to Tom Moran,
but it was one of my favorite

studios that I've ever had.

and it was so fun, but he introduced
me to SNARcitecture because of the

installations that SNARcitecture does
and all of these, you know, kind of just,

just different way of thinking about space
and the different scale of thinking about

architecture and I absolutely loved it.

And so.

when we originally crossed paths and I saw
that you were working at SNARcitecture,

I was like, this is amazing.

Like I, it's still like a top three firm.

Like I just, I just love all of the
work that SNARcitecture has ever done.

And so, if no one has checked out
Alexander's work up to this point

in studio, Bucky, like it's so good.

You're really, I haven't actually told
you this before, but you are amazing.

Right.

Your, your work is, your work is
incredible and you're super talented.

Alexander: I wouldn't

go to that, you

know, it's, it's, it's obviously, um, I
think what's important is I've always,

when I've been on this journey, I've been
thinking about like, you know, the, I've

been always interested in certain works.

And so I would find a way to go into
that office or that studio and it's

not that easy and don't get me wrong,
it's been very complicated, but I mean,

from working in Paris with the initial
firm that I was at with Sean Uvell and

the amazing people I met there and the
work I did there, I, really loved it,

honestly, I, I, you know, they talk
about the flow thing and I was just in it

there and it was, it was, it was special
and then I had to pull myself out of it

because I wasn't developing as, had hit
a, you know, I'd hit the ceiling there.

There was no growth.

So, I ended up going to New York
and, and yes, an architecture came

at the end of my last job before
I went out and did studio book.

Yeah, I had two jobs before that it was
a bit mad and it was all a bit chaotic.

I was learning and, uh, how
different offices work once

you leave as an architect.

And that's a very specific way of working.

So, you know, it wasn't
all, it wasn't easy.

It wasn't all good.

And then I, yeah, I had
always been interested in

the workers and architecture.

And, you know, I had reached
out to Mariji when I arrived.

I didn't get anything.

And, you know, I followed up
again and I had a conversation.

And it was like, it's, it's that
thing about where you find your fit.

You know, once I went in there, You know,
I was just suited to that office and that

was that, and, uh, it, the growth was
just like endless and it just kept going

and it was a small firm and, you know, I
could come in with experience from like

what I'd done in the different fields,
even if I'd failed in certain offices,

the failure was still a good learning
for what I've happened in with them.

it was an incredible experience, you know,
I look back on that, that whole thing

as, as like really informative for me
and really important and I had never done

interior design before that, you know,

I was working on bigger scale projects.

You know, I was doing competitions.

I was working on towers in China.

I was doing that kind of

Tyler: Same.

Yeah.

Alexander: I had done hands on, I had
done installations and workshops and

stuff like that separately myself and
had an interest and a passion for art.

So that's how I ended up,
you know, swaying in there.

But yeah.

yeah, it's crazy, man.

It's, it's honestly, knew I had the
ability and I guess they knew it

too, and it was more about just going
through the gears and, and falling

a little bit, but mostly running
and getting through it, you know,

Tyler: Yeah.

Alexander: and yeah.

So then you just work on these
incredible, interesting projects.

And, you know, I think I had always
resonated with me, this whole idea of

art and architecture, you know, and,
and exploring the in between of that.

And that's what they were doing.

It's an architecture and.

I think it genuinely sat with me in
a true way that I was doing the work

and I was actually doing it because
I felt passionate for it and and

we did, about 10 projects there,
and like, that's pretty wild to go

Tyler: That's a lot.

Yeah.

That,

that is the benefit of that, that scale of

Alexander: and they're different scales.

There's furniture, there's installations,
and credit to them for giving, being

open to giving people like myself,
the opportunity to come in and they

literally were like, look, this,
this role or whatever you want out of

this business can be what you want.

And they allowed that for me.

And I think that was, that
was really good, you know,

and so there was a freedom.

There was definitely creative freedom.

There was.

open mindedness for growth
and you can see that.

I mean, it wouldn't be the practice
it is it was a great, great time.

Tyler: Yeah, that's great to know
just from the outside looking in

that they do because you have to
imagine like when you're looking at

Snarkitecture's work, you're like,
there's got to be, like, I can't imagine

that's too, that's too rigid inside.

Alexander: so everyone employed
there is an architect by trade.

And so there is this like level of rigor
and structure on the business, which

has made them that successful because
one of the partners is an architect.

The other was an artist, and I think it
was using the architectural thinking.

applied to an artistic way of like, being
creative, just like opened up a whole

lot of stuff, it was just being able to
deliver, to be able to follow a rigorous

system, you know, everything we're trained
to do and apply that in a, in a kind of

an open minded way is quite interesting.

Tyler: Yeah.

got to check out, uh, art and
architecture by Hal Foster.

Have you read it before?

Alexander: No, no, I haven't actually.

Tyler: he teaches at Princeton, but he
doesn't teach in the architecture program.

He teaches in the art program.

So when I was at Princeton, I could
not, I could not get into his class.

I tried, I tried, but I was unable
to, but he's written this book on

art and architecture and it's, you
know, it's more of a theory book,

So.

you know, I've never really understood,
um, or I've never asked you how exactly

it is that you fell into architecture.

Alexander: Well, actually, yeah,
I was kind of pre made to do this.

so my dad is an engineer but he's
a civil engineer, but he always

wants to do architecture and he
didn't manage to get him to do it.

And so what happened was because
he's a chartered UK as well.

You're allowed to sign off on buildings
and you're actually got that level.

You've got that also the same,
Credibility, I guess, as an architect in

terms of that level of sign off and stuff.

And so he ended up, like, going into doing
buildings and, mostly residential, work.

And so like, when I was like, you know,
four or five or whatever, it was like I

was in a room with me, my brother, and
then there was my dad's like office with

one other guy and we were all, you know,
so like, I don't, I think it, I think it

was kind of set in some ways for me that
I would do that, honestly, because though

I thought about, you know, different
things, like there were mostly design

based, but I was interested in car design.

And then I was interested in, you know,
a few other paths, but then ultimately

I just, when I started the course and
I did it, it just felt right, you know,

and so I guess, you know, watching my
dad do structures and make buildings

and then made me think about me doing
it and it just kind of unraveled.

Tyler: Yeah, that's cool.

I feel like with every single architect
that you speak to, the vast majority of

the time, it really starts in childhood,
there's something that like clicks.

And childhood, where it just, you
know, makes sense that you just become

attracted to it for whatever reason.

And

Alexander: yeah, yeah.

And honestly, I didn't
really know what to expect.

I mean, in some ways, two of
my best friends were going

to uni in this one location.

And so I was like, you know, and
I, and I did apply and we all got

in the same place, but it was,
I was like, maybe it might work

out, you know, maybe I won't like

it.

But the minute I got into it and I
met it, it was the people, you know,

with the way they think as well.

You'd met people that were
like you, and I guess that goes

for everyone, I would hope.

And when they go to university, as you get
to that point where you feel like you meet

these people that, they also kind of have
these interesting quirks and interests

and that you couldn't find previously.

and then, yeah, just doing watercoloring
and drawing and all this crazy stuff.

Plus like all the, it was just
like, it was, it was nice, you know?

Tyler: that is so relatable.

because I actually, I didn't
start in architecture.

I was studying, I studied neuroscience in
pre med for like the first three years.

Like I literally switched into
architecture my senior year of undergrad.

Right.

And so, and the reason that I switched
in was because I, Just decided to

take an architecture, uh, elective.

And I kid you not, I was 10 minutes into
that class, this professor, my favorite

professor of all time, Melissa Harris.

I love her.

Um, she's absolutely incredible.

And it was a drawing class, you
know, it was like kind of like

basic architecture drawing.

And just, it was the way that she
was talking about the world, right.

And the way that she was talking
about your perspective and the things

that you would see and how you then
represent that on the page and these,

I fell in love with architecture in
10 minutes because of that class and

enough to be like, you know
what, I don't need to do pre med.

I was like studying for MCATs.

I was like, I'll, I'll go into
architecture, which it wasn't

completely out of nowhere because I.

Did enjoy design and I grew up liking
architecture and doing a lot of drawing

and I was always kind of artistic.

And so it wasn't completely out of
nowhere, but it was that same thing where

it was just like, yeah, I found people.

I like found my tribe, right?

I found people that I could
relate to immediately.

And that kind of like looked at things
the same way and thought the same way

about things and was questioning the same
things were interested in the same things.

And.

It's funny though, because young, naive.

Me, was like, oh man, switching
to architecture is going to be

so easy compared to compared to
pre med like pre med was so hard.

There's so many smart people in it.

Um, these courses are impossible.

And I remember thinking like in the
back of my mind, I was like, These

courses are going to be a breeze, right.

Relative to pre med and I'll never

forget the first, you know, it was, it was
my first week in the architecture school.

And, one of the first classes that I
went to one of the first lectures that I

went to, but it was construction, right.

It was, it was the construction lecture

and you know, it was a, it was 60 minutes.

And I did not understand
one word, one word

that my professor said in
the front of that class.

And I remember walking away from that
being a little bit like, Oh, crap.

Like, what did he just say?

Like, what just happened?

Alexander: Mm.

Tyler: are we talking about?

forever believe this, you know, that
was, that was just the impetus to it as

an example, but like, I think architects
are the smartest people in the world.

I think they're like,
they're just so intellectual.

and I think it's, I think it's
incredible and it's, overlooked, but.

By far, by far, the people in that
I met in architecture were more

intellectual and, and then the people
that I met in pre med for sure.

Alexander: Yeah.

Yeah.

And there's, you know, I think
it's getting that balance of, I

think what I loved about it was.

There was a real cultural interest
in many topics, whether it was

like art or science or politics
or, you know, it just was endless.

And profession basically
touches all of it in many ways.

You know, you're shaping the environment.

People walk in and move through every day.

And.

You know, even just understanding that
responsibility, it was like, you know,

you feel like, wow, I'm actually doing
something that I feel like is got

relevance in society on a, on a, on a kind
of a tangible way, you know, and like,

that's a, that's one takeaway, but then.

Yeah, I'm just like taking classes that
were so out there was just so enjoyable

and just having discussions, you know,
it was almost philosophical and like

anthropology was my favorite class, you

know, and like, I, you know, couldn't
believe that I got to do that.

And I actually think it was probably
going to, the architecture school

was probably the biggest change for
me as a, in a perspective sense, you

know, it was, it was probably the most
defining thing that moved my path in a

certain direction because I just like
got way more interested in everything.

Tyler: Yeah.

Yeah.

You start looking at the
world differently immediately.

Like you

take that first, You

take that first painting class, you
take that first drawing class, like

whatever, like you are immediately
just noticing things that you've never

noticed before and you're looking at the

Alexander: You're kind of
touching into doing art, you know?

And like, cause I've got a brother
who's, who's, who's an artist and

like, you know, they really, you
know, abstract their mind and like

really see things from every corner.

And I think we do an element of,
absolutely an element of that as well.

Tyler: absolutely.

I think you have to, I mean, I mean,
I think that's clear immediately when

an architect just talks to a normal
person about, about architecture,

Alexander: Yeah.

And that's how

we become so, it becomes,
we all end up together, you

Tyler: Yeah.

Yeah.

That's why architects are only
friends with other architects.

It's like the, you know, you go,
you go through that and it's.

It's just tough to find
yourself out of it.

I think this is also, you know, it's
also problematic in my opinion, like

in the industry, because it creates
this huge gap with clients and with

the general public in terms of how we
see things and how we talk about things

and how we communicate those values.

You know, I mean, everything that
I talk about, everything that I

teach is about how you communicate
your value as architects.

And that's where.

You know, I don't think there's not
necessarily a way around it because

we, I think, you know, I do believe
in that in, in school, you kind

of have to learn that you have to
go through that abstraction phase.

And since it can't all be technical, it
can't all be like, so based in reality,

I think you do need that abstraction.

And I think it's healthy, but,
um, it's so hard to come out of

that then and just speak directly.

two clients and to the
general public about

what It is that you do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because, you know, really what jury
should be in architecture school is

that they should, instead of bringing
in other professors, Uh, architecture,

other architects and other professors
from all of their schools, they should be

bringing in people like business owners.

Like they should be bringing in normal
people that will probably be your clients,

because that's going to be more important.

Like learning how to talk to them.

That's who you're going to be talking to.

That's who you're working with.

And you're not working with other, you're
not selling to other architects when

you, when you go out into the world,
you're selling to the general public.

And so I think that's problematic because
then you, you know, it's just, it becomes

this like endless cycle where you're
just, you're getting deeper and deeper

and deeper into the like architectural

vortex, you know?

Alexander: over intellectualizing of
stuff is too much and, you know, I've

gone through the ringer with that a few
times and, you know, I've been through,

you know, the endless, uh, psychoanalysis
of buildings and, and how they're being

developed and then translated for, you
know, it's just too much, you know, I,

I, I, I was in that and I, and I very
much so contributed to that for a while.

And then I just was like, honestly, yeah.

This is not good for me.

Tyler: I mean, I'm with you.

I it's, it's hard because it's fun.

I think it's fun to

Alexander: Yeah.

No, it is.

It is fun.

Tyler: buildings, but

it's like the second that you step out,
reality just smacks you in the face.

I think that's, that's,
that's the trouble with

Alexander: it does.

And It's hard to look at it the same

Tyler: yeah, it's, you
know, it's really tough.

It's like, you can, I guess I, and I think
that's why we get so many, professors

in architecture that don't practice
that much or practice very little.

Yeah.

It's because they, they like
staying in that realm, right?

They like staying in that
kind of cycle analysis lane.

Um, and so they basically
graduated from school.

And then the next thing that they did
is they went straight into teaching.

And I have a ton of

colleagues that, that,
that, did that same thing.

Right.

And, um, and I even tried to do it.

Like I tried to get a fellowship
immediately after school.

I did teach a little bit, you know,
I've taught, um, our, uh, undergraduate

and graduate, you know, studios and
it's this, you know, because it's fun.

It's nice to stay in that lane.

It's nice to kind of stay out of reality
a little bit, to be honest with you.

Alexander: And that's what it is.

You know, ultimately it's just a, this,
it's a bubble that you are designing

a fictitious world that really, when
you actually get into the brass tacks

of it, when you're actually come out
into, you know, working in an office,

Reality is just way different and we're
not conceptualizing over like how big

the cantilever is on the side of that
building where, you know, it's the

meaning is because it's of this thing.

And it's like, yeah, that's not exactly.

And I don't look,

Tyler: Go talk to the
structural engineer, see what's

actually possible.

You know, it's like,

Alexander: There's a space and time
for that and it's important and it's

good for people to, like, explore.

I think they have to blow their, their
mind apart to bring it back together.

But I think keeping it apart
for too long is just too much.

I mean, I don't know if it's
healthy to be continuously, uh,

theorizing about architecture
at the end of the day, you know?

Tyler: I agree.

It's something that I struggle with
having like gone to a fair, like

a, you know, a very theoretical,
like a master's program I did,

but it's like, it's tough.

a struggle with that.

I'm like, you know, is there, you know,
I do think there's value in it, but it's,

you know, does that value actually impact.

The general public and the work that
architects are doing probably, but I

don't think it's as much or as important
as what we feel like it is or make it

out to be when we're actually in it.

Alexander: Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I think there's like the, I think,
you know, a bit more of a, opening to

the reality of, of it would be good.

A bit more exposure to the reality.

And I think they're getting aware.

Some of them are getting
more aware and stuff.

So it's, it's a bit of a, it's
an ever evolving thing as well.

Tyler: Are you still drinking
or did you finish the drink?

Okay, good.

Alexander: Yeah,

Tyler: Like peer pressuring
you, you still drinking?

Um,

Alexander: yeah, don't worry.

I, the Irish, um,

Tyler: the, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You're probably bread.

Alexander: might just grab another one

Tyler: Yeah.

Go for it.

Alexander: Just needed that top up.

Tyler: right.

So, uh, let's do a fun one.

What's a, what's a controversial,
let's actually, let me reframe this.

What's the most controversial point
of view you have about architecture?

Alexander: I mean, we covered
a decent one there around the

education system, actually.

oh,

Tyler: That was overused though.

And I can say that because
I overuse it a lot.

Alexander: No, but I mean, just
because I was in it recently as

well, I think it was, it was quite, it was
quite, I think that's part of it, but in

terms of, I'm just trying to get in terms
of the profession itself, like I've kind

of removed myself a little bit in some
ways from it, which is funny, you know,

with how I, the work I do and the way
I've been doing it with Snarkitecture or

how I'm doing it now myself is that I'm
not a very traditional architect anymore.

I feel a bit more further from it,
like I can't relate as much to the

intellectualizing, sitting around
a table, everyone, just, like it

becomes everything, like I still go
see buildings when I go to cities,

you know, like I do do that, and
yes, and I get a kick out of it,

it does inspire me, you know.

but there's almost an incestual
thing going on that I don't like the

industry where it's all encompassing.

And I also like other things.

I like sport.

I like, I like food and I like cooking.

So like, I see that as, as much of
an interest and as, you know, as fun.

As, as just going, like people base their
whole holidays and going to buildings, you

know, I'm pretty sure you've, you've got

Tyler: Oh, they

Alexander: that.

Tyler: what architects do.

They travel and they, and
they go see all the buildings.

And I think, yeah, I think you're right.

I'm almost to the point
where it feels guilty.

Like, I mean, I can still feel guilty
traveling and being like, I'm not going

to go see any building, I guess, like,
because I don't know, other things are

just happening, but I do feel guilty being
trained as an architect, not doing that.

Alexander: And you're trained to do

Tyler: yeah,

Alexander: Every trip we did, in
university was like, we would go to Berlin

or we would go to Helsinki and the whole
trip was going and see nonstop buildings.

Tyler: It's just exhausting.

Alexander: And there was
nonstop party at the night.

So it was a mad mix.

Tyler: Yeah.

In reality, what you should
do is you should just go

like sit in the town square,

Alexander: Yeah.

Tyler: people that probably
be equally as educational as

going to 10 buildings in a day.

Alexander: What's all about people anyway.

Yeah.

exactly.

In the end,

Tyler: This is a fun way to end it, but
what are some of the biggest takeaways

from all of our sessions together?

Alexander: Yeah.

Well, I think, you know, all of it has
been incredibly, you know, helpful for

me in terms of, you know, starting this,
whatever it was eight, 10 weeks ago.

I like to get to this point, but you, it's
just been incredible to actually have a

project and the systems that we've set up.

And I think.

You know, it goes back to the start of
learning about the initial, you know,

let's think about the marketing and the
outreach and the emails to everyone and

like going through and doing that process.

And then following up for people, I
think it's just been, it's just been

like, yeah, I've really enjoyed that.

And I think, you know, high
level consistency is, is an

absolute critical item there.

I think consistency and setting up your
meetings and during the week to check in

on different items that you're working on.

I block out time for marketing,
time for business development, I

think those are really important.

I think you're always good at like, you
know, implementing and, and, and, you

know, being key directional around that.

I think other stuff that like, I'm
trying to think off the top of my head.

I mean, everything has been so helpful.

It's just like all of it, but.

yeah, how to navigate the clients and
stuff and just like finding clients

is obviously, it's, it's just a huge
void that we don't actually educate.

We talk, we just came from
the conversation around

the educational system.

There is no concept as
to how you get a client.

'cause the client is the one who has the
money to, to, to, initiate the project.

So like with that void,
we're just like all of us.

And that's the biggest, I think that's
the biggest skill gap we have as all of us

as architects, we're, we're well able to
sit with a glass of wine, intellectualize

and city squares around like the,
the politics of that current country.

But then when it comes to like
navigating, finding a client.

Or putting yourself in a
uncomfortable position to talk

about, you know, business and money.

We just don't do it.

You

Tyler: I'll do it.

Because it feels beneath us.

It feels, after all of that, after

all of that, it essentially
feels beneath us, which is,

Alexander: like the biggest thing I
learned from like working with you

and all the things we've done together
is it's okay to be a salesperson,

Tyler: Amen.

Amen.

Yes.

You are a salesperson.

Alexander: I am.

Tyler: single person that's listening
to this podcast is a salesperson.

Alexander: Yeah, it's the truth.

You know, I'm, I don't
feel bad about any of that.

I mean, we, and this is coming
back to the education conversation.

We were, it was, it's kind of seen as
a bad thing to go out and go for money,

to want to make profit, to want to have a
thriving, not saying a thriving business.

I think a thriving business
in their mind is incredible

projects is what you're

kind of educated for.

But, for me, it's been a kind of a
mindset set shift, you know, around,

around my relationship, with money,
with, the idea of business and, and.

I want to bring in good work and
great projects that people can Really

enjoy and I can't do that unless I
meet the right clients and the right

clients have Significantly interesting
budgets, you know, so that doesn't

happen without knowing how to do that.

And there is like the biggest issue.

And I'm sure everyone that's going to be
listening on these are on your newsletter.

They it's this, it's the problem.

It's like, it's how do we get there?

You know, how do we get the
extract the clients and work

to get the business to grow?

Tyler: Yeah.

Break the stigma, break the stigma.

Alexander: So, and you know, and
I think this is going to take time.

You know, I think it's going to take
time for it to sink in and for everyone

to be open to, making that change, that,
that, that, that, that mindset shift.

Tyler: I think it will, but you know,
it's, I've found it after writing about

it and speaking about it for, you know,
coming up on three years now, I think what

I've, you know, the way, the way that I
think about positioning in it now is that.

Money is it's, it's a vehicle
architects are the vehicle from

the client's current challenges
to their solutions, essentially.

Right.

Just like, just like architects are
that vehicle money is the same way.

It's, it's a vehicle.

For, better benefits for better
salaries, for a better lifestyle.

So it's not, it's not like you
want money for money's sake.

It's like you want money so that
you can, you know, celebrate,

celebrate your family, celebrate
your friends, celebrate your

Alexander: Yeah.

You want to take your
team out for a lunch.

and you don't want to care.

You want to, you want to, you want
to do a trip, you know, it's like you

can do a

lot of fun, positive things.

Tyler: Yeah.

It's you know, that, and you

shouldn't, you shouldn't feel.

Architects should not feel poor.

They should not feel tight in my, I mean,

all of this work for it.

And it's, it just doesn't make any sense.

And, you know, I think where people,
I think maybe feel most comfortable

when you, when you feel most
uncomfortable about it, I think it's

because you're thinking about, Oh,
I'm, it's like, I'm charging too much

or I'm, I'm taking money from people.

Right.

It's, um, I think, I think it's that
part about it that you feel uncomfortable

about, but the reality is that
you're giving so much value, right?

The things that architects do literally
impact people on a daily basis, right?

You're, you're designing and creating
these spaces that people spend their

entire lives in and you know, the,
the return on investment on that is

basically like, it's, it's astronomical.

It's you can't even, you can't even
calculate it's yeah, you're right.

It's not quantifiable.

And so.

You know, the value that
you're providing is immense.

There's literally, I don't think
there's a number, there's not a

number higher enough that you can
charge for that, in my opinion, right?

It's just a

matter of, it's just a
matter of getting up to it.

And so

Alexander: But this is, and again, this
is the thing, you know, and then as

we've gone through together is like,
you know, whether it was talking about

proposals and, and, and, you know, a
big thing for me that I I'm, I'm doing

on a, implementing on a weekly basis,
if I'm looking at a new lead as the

discovery call, and then looking when
we get to the proposal, the tiered

pricing and all that stuff is just
like, so helpful in terms of skills.

To allow yourself a better
opportunity to land something, you

know, rather than off the cuff willy
nilly on a call for 15 minutes.

Tyler: yes, amen.

And that's where most people
start, but you know, that

Alexander: And I'm sure there's
way more hacks in your newsletters,

Tyler: Yeah.

Check out the newsletter to learn more

Alexander: Yeah.

Tyler: yeah, I so appreciate your
willingness, for everyone that's been

listening, you know, thank you so much for
your willingness to be so open about this,

to allow us to record these consultations
and, to put them, to put them online

and for it to be the first season and
we all congratulate you and we're all

rooting for you to continue your success.

So thanks so much.

Alexander: Well, no, I appreciate it.

And of course, look, I mean, it's, you've
been integral to getting me off the ground

and all the conversations we've had are
really, really important and, you know,

I appreciate you being again with your
time and, and, and, and, and your concise

and constructive feedback all the time.

It's just been.

It's been great and, I'm delighted that
I did this, you know, I'm delighted

that I was part of it and that we have
it there as an archival thing, almost,

like it's happened, you know, and, you
know, it's, it's, we'll revisit it.

Tyler: Awesome.

Yeah.

Well, I appreciate you.

All right, friends, that's a wrap on
season one of the Growthitect podcast.

I would be so appreciative if you're
able to leave a review and let me know

what you learned and go to Growthitect.

com slash join to subscribe to
the growth attack newsletter.

So you don't miss out on free business
growth hacks and updates on season two.

Thanks for being awesome.

And I'll see you soon.